Jenni Clayville

Jason says:

OK…just to get the big elephant off the stage…let me ask the unspoken question most folks won’t ask. Was this “different visions” really just getting rid of the girl who had the affair without actually using that as the reason?

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jenni Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 9:37 am

interesting that you’d ask this, jason.

i have honestly not even thought about this till you asked it. i want to say no… but who the heck knows. my meeting was 15 minutes. *shrugs* i’d hope not.

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Crystal Renaud says:

God is just getting everything out of the way for Him to reveal what He has planned for YOU as the NEW person you are.

I for one, I am quite excited for you.

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jenni Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 9:40 am

thanks for journeying with me friend. i’m excited too. picture my excited face right now. you got that? yeah… exactly!

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Mikey says:

Jenni,

In those two years, not only have you and Brian changed and become better people… you guys have been instrumental in changing and helping A LOT of people.

There are things to mourn over, but there are a lot of things to rejoice over and be hopeful for.

What is next on your path is unknown right now… One thing I do know is that, no matter what it is, you two will continue to touch lives and inspire change.

Love you!
Mikey

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jenni Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 9:43 am

mikey… you are one of the greatest things that have happened to me since being at church at bethany. i found another sister through you… and for that, i will NEVER regret my time there.

love you!

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AmyE says:

First thought? … church work sucks! However it sounds like you’re processing things as well as can be expected. But few understand all that you lose when you work at church and then lose your job. So much bigger than just losing a job. yep … still think it sucks.

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jenni Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 10:02 am

yes. church work sucks because it never ends and the work is grueling and thankless. you’re right. we’re losing a LOT more than a job. we’re losing heart, time, dreams and hopes.

however… if church is done right (and some of it was), the once lost become found. the hopeless find hope. the unforgivable find grace. the unlovable find Jesus… who IS LOVE.

the relationships that are built within the church body reveal a little bit of Heaven… and that, my dear Amy, is worth it’s weight in gold.

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Jenny says:

Was thinking what Jason said and what AmyE said… will be praying for you friend… I’m so sorry – ugh – not fun. I’ve been there too

So, does this mean that you guys are moving to Medford?

((big hugs))

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jenni Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 10:05 am

thanks, jen.

i can assure you i don’t regret a single moment spent at church at bethany.

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Kris H says:

Thanks for elaborating… being the curious person I am I was wondering.
My first thought, the theory I had, was that funding had run out for your position.
Last time I had a parting of ways initiated by my employer I cried my eyes out because I thought I loved the job.
Turns out I didn’t love the job, I just loved it because I thought I was supposed to love it — it was the last time I worked at a daily paper and everyone in the world thinks you’re not a successful journalist unless you work at a daily paper, but I digress.
Luckily, I was in another job almost immediately. I’ve only been out of work for more than a couple weeks once since I finished college. And honestly, the two months I had between jobs after we moved back from Las Vegas was great. My first 2 1/2 years in the real world was exhausting! So, I can only imagine how you’re feeling these days.
There’s that saying, right, about when a door closes a window opens. That’s perfect for you since I would think a mini ninja would prefer to get in through a window than walk in the front door.
Just sayin’.

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jenni Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 10:11 am

HOLLA!!! hahaha!

yeah. i’m not too worried about this door closing. it was time. there were definitely some differences in values… but i don’t think it as a money thing. i actually received a raise last month. funny huh?

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Kris H Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 4:35 pm

I guess I just think you’re so awesome I couldn’t conceive of any other reason than they just couldn’t afford your awesomeness anymore.
I was worried about you for about 30 seconds but I know everything happens for a reason… I learned that (again) after sticking it out at my current job with a boss I hated because now I have a boss I love. No wonder none of those other jobs I applied for panned out.
Do you have a mini ninja outfit? I wonder if that would be appropriate interview attire?

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Roberta says:

Church work definitely has it’s up’s & down’s, but I can see God’s grace through your writing. It’s evident you weren’t serving a position or the person who was signing your paycheck, but the One you were really supposed to serve, as well as the people of the church. It’s amazing how God can take our painful/uncomfortable situations & turn them into something beautiful. Something good is coming around the corner!

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jenni Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 10:31 am

thank you, roberta. God IS good!

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James says:

I admire the righteous resolve you have through this. I’ve never lost a job, so I don’t know what it’s like, but I know how attached I am to my job and how much purpose I feel I’m fulfilling by doing it.

As Tam said, find the ‘more’ that God has for you and pursue it relentlessly!

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Liz says:

I guess that makes two of us! But I’m trusting in God. There is not one thing in our lives that isn’t pre-planned. God has already paved the way. I take comfort in the fact that the battle is fixed–we’ve already conquered!

I love you Jenni! I’ll continue to pray for you and your family.

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jenni Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

Thank you, my sweet Liz. Hugs to you and Sean!

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dubdynomite says:

I can say I totally identify with your situation.

Losing my church ‘job’ was one of the most difficult things that I ever faced.

You are fortunate to have so many great friends to help support you and encourage you.

People say that everything happens for a purpose. I like to think that God gives purpose to everything that happens.

And every new beginning is some other beginning’s end. [That sounds like a great lyric. Someone should put it in song ]

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jenni Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 4:41 pm

you’re right! i am TRULY blessed. please don’t ever let me forget that.

i love what you said, “God gives purpose to everything that happens.” Amen! so thankful for that!

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Katie says:

I don’t know you and you don’t know me, so don’t feel obligated to answer this. I’m asking in case you would like to offer some insight and reasons that I’ve never considered, having not been where you are.

I’m simply wondering the same thing I’ve wondered many times before…why so many worship leaders or pastors or team leaders or Sunday School teachers, etc…why so many feel they have to leave the church when they leave the ministry? Why don’t more stay with the church family, but as a simple member of the church?

There’s always if God specifically told them to move on…but the thing is, when that’s the reason, THAT happens first, and the stepping down is a result of that. And then there are send-offs, usually.

When it happens the other way around…well…the only reasons I’ve ever come up with essentially mean hard feelings, which means that something went wrong and love and grace and forgiveness aren’t being practiced by one or both parties.

Those situations where I’ve seen first hand that this IS the case, I find myself thinking difficult thoughts about why we, as the body of Christ, are so hard on each other…and can’t forgive…and why pastoral teams sometimes lead the whole church in unforgiveness by example…and then I wonder how I’ll do if/when the team I’m a part of goes through this.

I’m certainly not accusing you of these things…like I said, I don’t know you nor your situation. This is just something that I’m often curious about. Perhaps you have insight to offer, for you’ve definitely learned love and grace and forgiveness!

I…really don’t know. And I wish I did. Because I feel what I think is God’s grief when there’s division in the church.

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jenni Reply:
June 17th, 2010 at 9:45 am

Katie… you bring up very good and valid questions. i’ll ALWAYS answer questions here because my blog is a conversation. i hope you always feel free to ask.

the last church i worked at was a much larger church. after i stepped down from my position there, i continued to attend until i got my position at this last church. this last one was a church plant… very small. on monday i was told it was my last day “effective immediately” which means “please don’t come back.” they didn’t want to “send me off” or anything like that which is fine because that’s usually more of a political move.

in my experience, when there is a public “send off”, there are usually a lot of strings being pulled, severance packages involved, lists of what to say and what not to say, etc. it’s rare the TRUE reason the person is leaving or being asked to leave is being presented to the masses. this isn’t in ALL cases… just most i’ve seen with myself and other friends in ministry.

the fact that the leadership at this last church isn’t doing a “send-off” is good and bad. this avoids MOST politics… which i guess is better. but i don’t get to officially say “good-bye”. however, that’s about me… and not the church… so… i will say “good-bye” privately to those that were closest to me.

it’s probably for the best that i don’t return. the church is already going to be confused to what is happening since they don’t want to reveal the “behind-the-scenes” of all this coming about. me being there on sundays will only cause more strife and separation within the church. we don’t want to have members feel like they have to pick sides, which is always what seems to happen. that’s how churches split… and that’s rarely good.

i will probably write more about this experience when it’s not so recent of events. i am honestly ok… our family is ok… but i don’t want to make this any more awkward or divisive as this already is for the church.

did i answer your question? anyone else want to weigh in?

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Lisa Smith @stretchmarkmama Reply:
June 17th, 2010 at 10:26 am

That was a good answer. I think people would be surprised how often politics are at play in someone being “sent off.” This is why I rarely if ever use the phrase “God is calling me to another church.” At the end of the day, people often leave church work (or are asked to leave) for the very same reasons they leave any other job. I think a lot of Christian leaders like to use a God-spin to cover up the imperfections of the situation.

(Speaking of my own, long-term experience in ministry and not to Jenni’s specific story.)

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jenni Reply:
June 17th, 2010 at 10:39 am

Great point, Lisa!

I should clarify right now that God isn’t “calling me” to another church right now. However… we DO feel like God has “released” us from CAB which is why we have no hard feelings in all of this.

The reality is God has left the church in the hands of His imperfect people. We try our best, but we’ll fail every time because we are human. As long as we don’t stop TRYING for His glory, that’s all that matters.

I am by NO means done with ministry… though I’m not quite sure how God’s design for us will look now.

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Liz Reply:
June 17th, 2010 at 3:09 pm

Wait, did you say severance package? I didn’t know such things were involved in Church Ministry! Hahaha I’m a freak, I know! Ok, sorry, carry on!

p.s. I had the same reaction when I found out that people got paid when involved in ministry.

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David Reply:
June 17th, 2010 at 10:15 am

Another thing worth mentioning from the perspective of someone outside the US church (but a close friend of Brian & Jenni – ie: one of the current house guests Jenni mentioned in the post)

I know for many of my US friends, their position as worship pastor is also their income provision. So when that position no longer exists, for whatever reason, there is the need to leave the church in order to fulfil the requirements of their next position assuming it is also in ministry.

In my personal experience (in Australia), the vast majority of worship pastor positions are voluntary, and I’ve seen cases where the worship pastor has stepped down but stayed in the congregation.

But much of the time, there are differences between the leadership goals/styles/visions of key people in a church, and if these can’t be aligned for whatever reason, then a (gracious) parting of ways is usually the best option for everyone – as painful as it almost always is for at least one party.

A bit like Paul & Barnabas – and on that note, this is a good little summary on their split that might help too.

http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/813-the-separation-of-paul-and-barnabas.

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Mikey Reply:
June 17th, 2010 at 10:43 am

Katie, I feel a lot of the same things you said.

I also agree with what Jenni and David said about this probably being the best, reasons why someone may choose to not be part of the congregation, etc…

My concern comes from when a person is asked (or encouraged) to not come back to church or be a part of the congregation. Church should NOT be exclusive.

It breaks my heart.

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brent(inWorship) says:

Katie, I really appreciate your heart in this.

You said this…

“…and why pastoral teams sometimes lead the whole church in unforgiveness by example…”

This is the reason many church leaders cannot continue to attend a church that they have just been let go of.

It is unfortunate, but the best thing Jenni could do right now, is to just leave and stay quiet. If she was given the opportunity to be “sent off”, this would mean exactly what Jenni has said. Politics. Often times, the leadership does not want to “deal” with these kind of things. An “immediate dismissal” is either a sign of wrong doing on the employees part, or a sign that the leadership does not want to deal with the aftermath, fearing it may get difficult. The leadership of the church has to lead in grace and forgiveness. They should allow Jenni to be a part of the church. They should allow Jenni to have her space to talk and share. What would they be afraid of?

It is truly in the hands of the Pastoral leaders when dismissing someone. As you can see, Jenni has nothing to hide and is willing to speak. All she can do at this point, is hope that truth and honesty and forgiveness are shown and encouraged.

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Mikey Reply:
June 17th, 2010 at 10:45 am

what he said.

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Diane says:

Leaving a leadership role is difficult, especially if there is the option of staying in that church as a member, and the problems arise on both sides.

If a former leader still attends, the current leadership feel really awkward. It’s true. For the most part they don’t know how to handle them, or are trying to second guess the person’s next move, despite themselves.

On the other hand, the congregation will still be looking to the former leader for leadership still, and unless they are divisive or a narcissist, most former leaders DO NOT want to be in a church splitting, Pied Piper scenario. They want to fellowship with friends and family, but with the knowledge of how troublesome this could be, they bow out gracefully.

But, people still have questions and want to know why (in a ‘letting go’ situation), so the burden of responsibility falls on the existing leadership to allay fears and explain their decisions – NOT the person that’s gone. And also, the responsibility of the congregation to process these things in a Godly, mature way. Unfortunately, not all believers are mature, so this stuff can adversely affect their walk with God and trust in church leadership, and that’s the saddest thing.

It’s important to remember, though, that even if someone leaves a ‘church’ they haven’t necessarily left the ‘Church’.

God is bigger than politics, denomination and culture.

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David Reply:
June 17th, 2010 at 11:06 am

I need a Facebook “like” button for this comment.

Just as well I get to feed on the wisdom this brain produces every day of my life. I love you!

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jenni Reply:
June 17th, 2010 at 11:10 am

good thing this isn’t facebook, you nerd.

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David Reply:
June 17th, 2010 at 11:16 am

I think the Like buttons on comments are one of the best things they’ve done in a LONG time.

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brent(inWorship) Reply:
June 17th, 2010 at 11:06 am

“But, people still have questions and want to know why (in a ‘letting go’ situation), so the burden of responsibility falls on the existing leadership to allay fears and explain their decisions – NOT the person that’s gone”

Yes!

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Mikey Reply:
June 18th, 2010 at 9:08 pm

“But, people still have questions and want to know why (in a ‘letting go’ situation), so the burden of responsibility falls on the existing leadership to allay fears and explain their decisions – NOT the person that’s gone”

… and this should be done in a Godly way, ensuring that both sides are properly represented… and that no smoke and mirrors are employed in this process.

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Lynse Leanne says:

I am super excited for what is coming for you guys. Its scary and hard to leave a job that pays the bills, but i have learned in the last year that it is so amazing! God really shows up and takes care of us, his children. Praying for you guys in this season for God to be your provider and everything you need in this time!!

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jenni Reply:
June 17th, 2010 at 2:21 pm

thanks, lynse! God has always been good to us and has ALWAYS provided for our needs. we trust He’ll continue. loves to you!

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Jen says:

While it majorly sucks that I’m on the opposite of the globe right now, I do have the privilage of being “on night-shift” for you as prayer back up So, sleep well at night, this little Aussie’s got your back

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Jennifer says:

Wow – I will be praying for you in this! I love that you are handling this with such grace though (as you & Brian have handled so much in the past couple of years).

You will continue to be used by God, and how (as Tam said) you have been freed to move on to the more that God has planned for you & your family.

Keep sharing your life with us. Keep ministering to those God places in your path. Keep trusting in Him to be your everything. You are in His hand, and there, NOTHING can harm you!

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Arthur says:

As one of those ‘you don’t know me’ readers of your blog…I was intrigued by what appeared to be a close friendship and working relationship between you and Matt. The dismissal seemed to expose that relationship as purely positional. I would have imagined a much more relational process to transition you out. A process that served the church and you. A process that affirmed differences in vision, direction etc. as an occasion for love’s manifestation of patience, kindness, truthfulness etc.

We want to be the family of God, but revert too quickly to corporate processes.

I will be praying for all involved and know that God will be faithful to you as you honor Him through this transition. I do respect your attitude and maturity in Christ as you are expressing it here in this public forum.

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Jenni Clayville Reply:
June 19th, 2010 at 10:43 pm

Arthur… THANK YOU for your words here and for coming out of “quiet readership”. I so love hearing the voice of my readers and getting to know your hearts here.

Thank you for your encouragement. Your prayers are also coveted.

As for Matt and my working relationship… what you observed in the past was all true. We had a good friendship and worked great together… until we discovered our “different visions”.

I think Matt’s timing in letting me go was more of a “do it fast” or “drain it out slowly”. Though it was a bit “corporate”, I wouldn’t say it was a bad thing. I don’t doubt this was a very difficult decision for him to make… but I’m glad he actually MADE the decision.

I will say I honestly don’t think his process of letting me go was intended to hurt me. In the past two years, he’s almost always been one of my biggest champions. I’m not offended by what happened… I’m just sad for him and for the church.

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Arthur Reply:
June 20th, 2010 at 6:32 am

Thanks for the response.

I am not an armchair quarterback, or distant criticizer of what I am not fully informed about. I was simply curious as to the seeming ‘end’ to a friendship that was founded in a working relationship/partnership which has ended, and thus ends the friendship?

I wonder if the congregation would have been served by a parting that acknowledges differences (Paul and Barnabas parting for example) yet contending for ongoing friendship? this would model something and be a great teaching moment for everyone.

Thanks for your transparency.

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jenni Reply:
June 20th, 2010 at 11:31 am

I absolutely agree with you in this. I wish it could have been done a bit differently. I’m not sure if our friendship is over forever… but we’re definitely taking a hiatus right now.

As much as I wish this were more of a Paul/Barnabas situation, I’m not really sure it is. I think the reason the congregation has been given “vague” information is because my old pastor doesn’t WANT them to know what the vision differences are (I’m not sure it will reflect well on him).

I honestly don’t have an issue with people knowing… but I’ve been asked to reveal very little, hence the lack of details in this post.

If anyone has been hurt in this whole situation, it has been the congregation. But God is the ultimate Healer… and thru Him, all things are possible.

I love your insight, Arthur. Thanks for your comments!!!

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Lindsey @ A New Life says:

Um wow, that was long ;-P

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Paul says:

I don’t know what I can add that my lovely wife just said. Sorry we’re late to the (comment) dance. We are trusting amazing things are ahead for the Clayvilles and you will press in close to the Lord in this time of both uncertainty and opportunity.

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